Horse ownership is a journey of responsibility and emotional connection, and in this episode, I'm thrilled to be joined by the ever-sparkling Nora Dhondt as we traverse the highs and lows that come with the territory. Our heartfelt discussion kicks off with the delicate issue of horse neglect, a serious and complex matter. We tackle this sensitive subject by weighing in on the necessity of understanding the full narrative before casting judgment, yet we also stress the importance of advocacy when a horse's welfare is at stake. As we chat, Nora and I pull back the curtain on the interpersonal dynamics at play within equestrian circles, particularly the challenging role of boarding stable proprietors.
As Dr. Sandra Holt, I'm proud to share how Nora's own stable's unique policy fostered an environment where boarders were encouraged to nurture bonds through hands-on care with their equine companions. Highlighting the profound connections that can blossom between horse and rider, we reminisce about a young boy and his horse Leo, and their journey in the Hunter Jumper discipline. These narratives not only showcase the deep bonds formed but also illuminate the therapeutic influences horses can have on individuals grappling with disabilities or PTSD. Our conversation underscores the significance of being a voice for these noble creatures, advocating for their proper care and celebrating the remarkable relationships that enrich the lives of both human and horse.
Wrapping up our conversation, Nora and I underscore the pivotal role of groundwork in horsemanship, drawing analogies to foundational life lessons that resonate beyond the stable. From the importance of respect and connection in horse training to the parallels with parenting, we share personal tales that exemplify the far-reaching impact of these principles. To all our listeners, we extend a warm invitation to keep the dialogue thriving by reaching out through our Horse Fix Facebook group. As we say farewell, Nora and I express our gratitude for your company on this journey, and we leave you with a fervent wish for a life adorned with the metaphorical blue ribbons of success and happiness.
May all your blues be ribbons
Horse ownership is a journey of responsibility and emotional connection, and in this episode, I'm thrilled to be joined by the ever-sparkling Nora Dhondt as we traverse the highs and lows that come with the territory. Our heartfelt discussion kicks off with the delicate issue of horse neglect, a serious and complex matter. We tackle this sensitive subject by weighing in on the necessity of understanding the full narrative before casting judgment, yet we also stress the importance of advocacy when a horse's welfare is at stake. As we chat, Nora and I pull back the curtain on the interpersonal dynamics at play within equestrian circles, particularly the challenging role of boarding stable proprietors.
As Dr. Sandra Holt, I'm proud to share how Nora's own stable's unique policy fostered an environment where boarders were encouraged to nurture bonds through hands-on care with their equine companions. Highlighting the profound connections that can blossom between horse and rider, we reminisce about a young boy and his horse Leo, and their journey in the Hunter Jumper discipline. These narratives not only showcase the deep bonds formed but also illuminate the therapeutic influences horses can have on individuals grappling with disabilities or PTSD. Our conversation underscores the significance of being a voice for these noble creatures, advocating for their proper care and celebrating the remarkable relationships that enrich the lives of both human and horse.
Wrapping up our conversation, Nora and I underscore the pivotal role of groundwork in horsemanship, drawing analogies to foundational life lessons that resonate beyond the stable. From the importance of respect and connection in horse training to the parallels with parenting, we share personal tales that exemplify the far-reaching impact of these principles. To all our listeners, we extend a warm invitation to keep the dialogue thriving by reaching out through our Horse Fix Facebook group. As we say farewell, Nora and I express our gratitude for your company on this journey, and we leave you with a fervent wish for a life adorned with the metaphorical blue ribbons of success and happiness.
May all your blues be ribbons
Music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music. Hi everyone, you're listening to the Horse Fix, where you can get that horse fix and perhaps fix your horse at the same time, and you might even be able to fix yourself as well. I'm Dr Sandra Holt and I'm coming to you from my studio here in Longview, texas. With every episode I strive to help you navigate your way through life and I like to use the horse to do that. And also, sometimes I reach out to friends and, speaking of friends, I have one here with me today, nora Daunt.
Speaker 1:Many of you have heard her before on some of my episodes and you always ask that she come back when she can. Well, she's here. She made that long trip from Aubrey to visit this weekend and we decided we'd celebrate her birthday while she's here, and I asked her to do a podcast and of course, she agreed. So I'm not sure what we're going to talk about. We may jump from subject to subject, of course, always related to the horse and related to personal growth. Those of you that listened and heard Nora before know that she is a spitfire. She's full of energy, she's opinionated and very entertaining. So we're going to have fun. So, my friendly listeners, if you're ready for Nora, so am I. Let's get started. Nora, I'm so happy you're here. Thanks for making that long drive to Longview. I know it's like three and a half hours and I know it can be kind of tedious at times.
Speaker 2:Good time to relax too and see the beautiful country on the way down here, so I enjoy it as well.
Speaker 1:It's in a different state of mind it does, yeah, yeah, just kind of unwind a little bit. Absolutely, nora boards her horse at a very nice facility and she asked me one day what do you do, sandy, if you see a horse and it has either been neglected or not treated properly? Do you meddle, do you interfere or do you just mind your own business? So I put that out there and I got some responses that were pretty good. I got one response from Shelly Torres, and Shelly, I can't remember where you're, I think you moved to Tennessee, if I remember right.
Speaker 1:Anyway, shelly said that he actually saw some horses that seemed malnourished in a field and actually hunted down the owner and asked could she buy them? And he said no and seemed a little offended. And next time she drove by there the horses were gone. So and she kind of wanted some horses and she thought that that would be a good opportunity, but that didn't work out. And she kind of wanted some horses and she thought that that would be a good opportunity, but that didn't work out. And then Yvonne Yvonne's from Texas and Yvonne, eric and Yvonne said well, I have to speak up. I care more about the horses than I do people's opinion about me and they may not like it, but I'd have to speak up.
Speaker 1:Christine Klug from Michigan. She responded to the message and she had an interesting reply and she reminded me that, no matter how flat the pancake you've heard me say this no matter how flat the pancake, there's always two sides. And her comment was she has an older horse, 32 years old, and suddenly, practically overnight, her horse became very, very thin and cannot put the weight back on. So she wanted to make sure that. She made the point that you can't always judge the book by its cover and be sure you have the facts before you go asking people or telling people what they should be doing with their horses and talking about that, and I talked to Nora a little bit about it and so we decided to make that one of our first subjects here on the podcast. So, nora, what's your opinion about all of that?
Speaker 2:Oh boy, I'll tell you this just didn't come up the other day. Throughout the years when I've been at many boarding facilities, you come across a horse or two that the owner is not around, or maybe the owner is traveling a lot, or, you know, they have such a dependence on us as an owner, like our children, that it made me wonder like what's happening. You know, like that they're not or they're not petting the horse or even touching the horse or grooming the horse or doing anything, and that kind of bugged me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and being an owner of boarding stables, I can tell you that it's entered my mind. Why are these people owning these horses if I never, ever, ever see them? Of course, I know that in the beginning they love their horses, they're excited about their horses, and then it becomes old after a while, or their horses become old and they can't be ridden, or whatever, and so they become absent owners. They phone it in, so to speak. They'll call and say how's the horse doing every once in a while, and they'll pay their board on time, and lots of owners of boarding stables love those kind of clients, because they never see them, they just get their money.
Speaker 1:I didn't like it, though, and, on the other hand, as an owner of the boarding stables, as an owner of the boarding stables, I always wanted people not to approach the owner of the horse, but to approach me and to give me a chance to either answer that person's inquiry about the horse or give me a chance to talk to the owner of the horse and to rectify it. So you know, rather than have any kind of problem from border to border, I wanted to be the mediator there, but many times that didn't happen, and I would have to come in the middle of two people clashing because of the different opinions.
Speaker 2:I think I have a problem with and this is just because maybe I'm italian, I don't know but I have compassion for these animals that are really wanting to be felt and touched and heard and that they're just there and being fed and being turned out and brought in, but not groomed, not touched, not no communication. So it makes me wonder and I said to Sandy again, bear with me when I say this then why own that animal, sell the animal to someone who wants to love and nurture that animal, or maybe even donate the animal to a therapeutic clinic of some sort that could really help somebody with a disability. You know, those are my views on it. I owned a stable for six and a half years and my golden rule was when, for example, I didn't have that many horses, but when I did Well, you had what? 18?.
Speaker 1:I had 16. 16.
Speaker 2:And I said to them look, you know in their porting contract that I wanted to see the initiative of them coming out or any member of the family grooming the horse, taking care of the horse. You don't have to ride, but I just wanted that interaction right and I was, I was, I was very strict with that at my place. You know that's how I started up.
Speaker 1:So that was a little bit maybe ocd, but that was. You know what that took? Some huevos, because you know most boarding stables wouldn't I didn't, number one, I didn't think boarding stadiums wouldn't I didn't. Number one, I didn't think to do that, but number two, I didn't know if I'd be overstepping my bounds. But for you to say you could board your horse here if you take care of your horse, right, right, I commend you for that.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you. You know why? Because it was very it wasn't like to the exact, but it was like show some initiative that you are the owner of this horse, that you do come out, even if it's once a week, to groom it or be with it or do whatever. Okay, I would never allow a boarder to come to my ranch. Okay, bear with me and just pay board and not be around. I would not have them and I was new in the business so I didn't know all the ins and outs, but I was running it how I would feel about it personally, so that's how I did it.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I think that's great that you were new to that business, because you took a fresh take on it, and I think that's what the horse industry needs occasionally is someone to jump in and have a fresh look at things and not try and go with the way it's been done Right and do it just because it's been done that way Right. You know so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you know, I looked at even the horses. I didn't know that were at my place or anywhere I go now because I don't own my facility anymore with compassion, yeah, I look at them as someone's children, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this, because I've not been in that situation I've either had my horses myself, I've never boarded them. I'm boarding my mare now for the first time, but so, as a boarder and as a compassionate person to the equine, do you step in physically and change it, or do you step back in respect to the ownership? Where do you draw the line?
Speaker 2:It's a very tough question. It all depends on where you're boarding, but if I would see the owner, I might might, knowing me, walk up and introduce myself and say, hey, I'm here all the time, okay, if you need any help with your horse. Sometimes people have health issues. Sometimes, yeah, people have to drive a long way. Sometimes people are trying to keep it together with their work, uh, and I can help, then please let me know. And also, but also, I want to be safe. I don't want to be bit kicked or hurt by their horse, you know, but they have to give the acknowledgement and understanding. You know, if I could be like, hey, if I'm here and I see flies on your horse, I'll be glad to open the door and spray them with your fly spray or what have you, or things like that, yeah, but you can't, you can't do too much unless the owner says hey, it's okay.
Speaker 2:But, like I say, there are some horses that I see standing around not being ridden, when they are show horses, when they should be given that attention Because, again, they depend on us for grooming, for their feed, for their training, for for their turnout, all of that, and when I see that happening, I think, well, you know what, maybe it's really time and if I know the owner, which I do, I even said to the owner that I knew hey, you're not coming around very much, you know, maybe it's best bear with me when I say this that you look for someone that can give your horse the attention that he or she deserves. Yeah, and that's a tough call it is. Because people get very emotionally involved. At the end of the day, you have to say to yourself okay, forget my emotions. What is best for the animal?
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. They don't have a voice, so we have to be their voice. I think that's a good thing, nora, that you do approaching the owner and starting out by saying let me help, and then, if that doesn't work, get a little tougher and give them some brutal honesty there.
Speaker 2:I think that's, that's good, and just have a nice conversation. You know, know, communication, no matter what you're in, whether it's horses, business, children, wives, husbands yeah it's so key it is and it's how you deliver the message and, believe me, I'm not the best deliverer of messages. Okay, because I'm very blunt, I'm too important. It's like, hey, hey, why aren't you all up?
Speaker 1:Nora, you grind me a little bit up the head broodmare, actually, because you are in the moment, there's no wondering what you mean and, just like the head broodmare, she will tell you what she means and she'll make her intentions known and you know how to deal with that. And so that's probably why you're my best friend, because I I know how to deal with it, I don't have to second guess what you're thinking there's no agenda there, you're just there and I love that about you.
Speaker 1:The last episode we talked about connection, right, and one thing that I, when I listened back to it, I thought you know I didn't talk enough about the horse's need for connection and I think that's kind of touches on what you were just talking about as far as that horse needs a touch. The horse needs to connect, feel like there is somebody coming to groom and there is somebody to be their voice, and horses definitely need to feel a connection well, I got a good story on that one.
Speaker 2:My son is a wonderful horse rider and horseman. Yeah, he is great. Yeah, thank you for saying that. As a matter of fact, sandy trained him for many, many years, uh, since he was six years old, and then he went on to another trainer. When he went to Hunter Jumper, my son rode an 18-2 Thoroughbred beautiful, beautiful horse, a young horse. We had bought him when he was two and a half I'm his three and I thought, oh, what am I doing?
Speaker 1:I thought I was going to shoot her.
Speaker 2:She says I think I bought this horse, yes, and I thought, oh, my goodness, and my son was just 12, and I thought, oh Lord, this is going to be a good one. But anyway, to make a long story short, the horse was green, had some training and my son was green for Hunter Jumper. They worked well and blended together but he showed commitment and compassion and connection and we love this horse so much that my son started in college much more heavier with the schedule and we had to make a decision to find a really good home for our beautiful thoroughbred, leo. And it took us a good while. But we did find a fantastic owner. I became close with the new owner. She's been a blessing. She loves his horse. She's even said my son can come down and see his horse at any time.
Speaker 1:Let me stop you there. Trust me, if you ever buy a horse from Nora, you will be her friend, whether you want to or not, she will hunt you down.
Speaker 2:She will make sure that she stays connected with you and her horse that she sold to you go ahead but anyway, I just wanted to make sure that before we sold, because it's not about money, it's never about money. It's about making sure that that beautiful animal that has blessed you and your life and your soul and even your child's life, okay, is going to go to a great home, because that gelding or that mare deserves that. Yes, they have worked hard for that opportunity. So anyway, we got lucky, found a wonderful owner and he went to a horse show and I drove all the way out to bartonville. My son had to work that day to go see Leo after six months and you want to talk about connection.
Speaker 2:I found his stall and I went up to it and I said his name and I kept talking to him and talking to him and I said you know, I was saying all these things right and he turned his head and he I mean as quickly as he could came to the stall, the edge of the stall, and I went in and I hugged him and I had tears in my eyes. There's not a better feeling.
Speaker 2:Not a you can't. There's no amount of money in this world that can top that. And when I hugged him and loved him, I knew he knew who I was and then I came back to say, hey, I still love you, I'm still in your life, I'm still making sure you're okay, and he was just amazing. I mean, it was just like if he could talk, as we say, even Sandra's horse, electra, if she could talk oh God, help us on that one or if one of my nails could talk, that would be another podcast and a half. It's a wonderful feeling and you know, life is short and when we have these opportunities, we grab them. Yeah, and, and they're great memories, they are great and they never go away no, never.
Speaker 1:That's the one thing that no one can wrap from you are your memories. Thank goodness that you and I, Nora, have learned how to build memories together with our horses Many, many, many memories and it's pretty awesome. So the horse does need a connection, folks, and if you think it doesn't, there's been scientific studies now I got my doctorate's degree in horse behavioral science and one of the things that has been proven and what I learned is that in the 60s, 70s and even the 80s, many people believed that horses really didn't have any cognitive senses, that they couldn't love, they couldn't grieve, that they couldn't bond and they couldn't feel a connection. And there have been scientific studies now that prove all of that wrong and that the horse not only can do that, but thrives on it.
Speaker 2:Well, you know my son and I in the past have volunteered, for example, at Blue Sky Therapeutic facility in Aubrey. I have, and my son has a few times and I'm telling you hear me out, when you have a disabled child, a disabled adult persons, people with ADHD, all types of physical and even mental issues, ptsd big time, and you get them connected to that animal, you see a whole world of difference. And, sandy, you know you've done horse shows and helped those folks achieve things that they didn't think that they could.
Speaker 2:That was just amazing and you know the animal, the horse does so many things and provides so many blessings if you really take the time and and spend that time with that animal and and learn from it. Yeah, I think I have a lot. I mean, I mean, who would know that I would be breeding horses and having babies when I knew nothing? I mean, I'm a business, I'm not a horse breeder, but I ended up that way for a few times.
Speaker 1:But you know, going back to Blue Sky, the people at Blue Sky, the residents there, they achieved so much but the horses were so connected with those kids and adults. I mean I would see the horse shift their body under that rider to keep them protected and keep them balanced on their back. And I've seen the same horse, stumpy I'm thinking of. Yes, stumpy was a, I remember him. Yeah, he was a champion reining horse. Yes, and this guy could get up and go with slide, stop 30 feet and been on a dime and yet you put a challenged rider on him and he would take good care of them. So he felt that connection and I think he thrived on it. I really do.
Speaker 2:Okay, speaking of okay, in my age, when I bought this horse four years ago, everyone was telling me it's too much horse for you, because she's a cutter, a reiner, you could mounted shooting off of her and all that. But I fell in love with her and I thought, well, I'm going to have my trainer here, sandy, get her down to my level. Of course, sandy at the time just had surgery with her collarbone and she couldn't test her out. But I went ahead and I just, I don't know, I had such faith to get this horse that I knew once my trainer healed a little bit of pressure to train her. And I'm telling you what this horse can go from 0 to 50 if she wants. But when I get on her, okay, trust. And it took a long time to get to that point and she's been marvelous, and horses don't come around like that every day.
Speaker 1:She's definitely one of those that is unique. I feel very blessed that I was able to work with her and that she does what she does for you. Thank you. She is a very, very sensitive mare. In fact, nora and I were talking about this earlier that Nora just came off of some surgery and I just came off of some surgery and we were commiserating about what do you do with your horse when you can't ride it? We're not healed enough to ride. What all can you do with your horse when you can't ride it? We're not healed enough to ride. What all can we do with the horse? Well, there's so much to do and I think many of you that might have be in the same boat that we were or are might be able to resonate with this. But nora told me she said well, I decided that my mare's so sensitive, I'm gonna try to desensitize her a little bit. So norah went out and got a little flag and she did. She take to it, or?
Speaker 2:she ain't taking to it at all she's not taking to it at all. This is starting because I'm I'm lunching her now to keep her going. And also she needs to be desensitized because when she sees flowers on jumps or anything, she just goes In the trail classes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's just forget it.
Speaker 2:I mean you can never open the gate and shut it with her. Sandy can do it, I can't. She's just flying through it. I mean she goes through the rope and everything, like you'd think a dragon's flying after her. So I thought, well, now I got the time. I went to paul taylor and I got me a little flag and, uh, it's been very interesting that I just did it once so far and she's gonna like it. But you know what, at the end of the day, after some time and patience, she will like it because she has to understand she doesn't have to have fear, right, she has to get over the fear?
Speaker 1:yes, of that, yes, of anything moving. And that's what desensitization is. Is that you, is that you get them so that they understand that this is not a boogeyman, this is not an alligator or a monster, it's not going to kill them. And you help them get over that. And I remember, when you bought her, the owner said to us, or the trainer, one of the persons that was riding her said you've got to take her around in the arena a few times to let her see everything before she gets calmed down, and so I know what they were talking about.
Speaker 1:Every horse has their own character and their own senses, and so she definitely needs that. And if you have a horse that needs that, and if you're unable to ride them, there are several avenues you can take to get them to the point where, well, get yourself to the point where you're actually doing something with your horse, because, again, if you don't have anybody else to do it for you, then you do it. Even if you can't ride, do things with your horse to keep them connected with you keep them connected with you.
Speaker 2:Speaking of that, groundwork is what I know for many, many years by working under sandy as a trainer is everything yes, is everything. I keep telling people you've got to do groundwork, you've got to walk with your horse. They have to have manners. My 18-2 thoroughbred you could hold him just with a touch and he would walk side by side with you like a gentleman. You could hold him with a pinky, yeah, a pinky, a pinky and a cup of tea, honey, a cup of tea and a pinky and he would go out to that pasture like a gentleman. And that's what you want At the end of the day. You want manners.
Speaker 2:And I tell people work on the ground, because when you get on, at the end of the day, you want manners. And I tell people work on the ground Because when you get on the saddle, like Sandy taught me, it means everything. But a lot of people don't. They don't want to spend time, they don't want to waste time on the ground. I'm like, no, you've got to work on the ground because that's where you get. I feel your respect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I really do, yeah, and every horse is different it is.
Speaker 2:All my horses are all. I had nine horses. They were all different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and it's not asking your horse to be submissive, you're not trying to show dominance, but again, you're trying to show that connection and think about it. Before humans, horses had just horses as relationships. Well, it was ground to ground, it was eye to eye, it was hoof to hoof. And so, given that that's the horse's nature to be ground level first, it only makes sense. And I've heard so many people say groundwork is a waste of time, groundwork is useless, and many people are against groundwork, but I I couldn't disagree more oh well, you know, my son was under sandy's direction and western for many years and understood groundwork and showmanship, yeah, and horsemanship in general on the ground.
Speaker 2:And when he got into hunter jumper with another trainer, I I talked to the trainer, who was an inventor at the time. They didn't do any, you know groundwork or whatever. But I said, look, here's the deal. He's almost three and a half years old, my son's 13.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's 18 too, do the math. I don't want an accident and I talked to Quinn. I go work with him on the ground, with your trainer, who is huge. Trust me to be on the side of him, not pulling him, being able to load into the trailer like a gentleman. All those things have taken many years, but my son ended up being safer. You know, as a person, you're safer, sure, at the end of the day, you're much more safer, yeah, than having a horse that's going to do something to you or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I call it foundation work Right and in life period, build the foundation in your life. Whether you have horses in your life or not, maybe it's having children, maybe it's looking for a job, maybe it's starting a new home. When you build a home, what do you start with Right? The foundation, yes, and you do the best job you can do on that foundation so that home, that house that you're building, is sturdy and is going to hold up over year after year after year. Well, that's what you do in relationships, whether it be with people, whether it be with horses. That foundation is so important, very much so. I you know, I listen to you, nora, talk about your parenting. I really admire the way you have parented and thank you.
Speaker 1:Her son is just stellar. I just I. I can't say enough about him and and it's thank it's due to Nora. I credit her mostly and her former husband.
Speaker 1:I guess he did a little bit too, he did do a lot, yeah, yeah, but you really worked on his foundation. And now he's 19 years old and I just got off the phone with him and I felt like I was talking to a 50-year-old man that had been around the world several times and really knew who he was or who he is, and could conduct himself without pause.
Speaker 2:Thank you A lot of work. I tell you why when I was riding my horses and buying horses and breeding horses at Sandy's place and her being my trainer my son decided to take a lesson with her at six and a half years old on a horse named a pony, named Patch, yes, and I thought, well, why not right? You know, we never told our son, hey, you gotta like horses, you gotta go to work. Never, and he started on Patch and the rest was history. Next thing you know, within a year, he's riding a golden Palomino with an attitude, a mirror, an alpha mirror?
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think, after riding her and showing her in big shows under Sandy's supervision for over eight years, it taught him to really be a great rider for Leo.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's his thoroughbred. Quentin got a foundation.
Speaker 2:yes, it's a foundation and you know if you can have your children take lessons. I know it's expensive, but you know what I tell people. Hey, listen, rehab is more expensive than horses you know what I mean? Yeah, you know, it kept my son in a good direction. It kept him focused on school. Uh, it kept him not wanting to go into drugs. You can't go into drugs when you have to be physical and be in a sport.
Speaker 1:You know any sport, soccer horses what?
Speaker 2:have you it really. It really helped mold him as a young man. I you know there's no amount of money that can top that and I'm so grateful for that that he's turned out that way.
Speaker 1:I am too. I am too. I love that kid. Well, we're out of time, so people be sure to subscribe and to give us a thumbs up and share. Give me some input. I love to hear what you have to say about our episodes or your ideas of what to do next. You always seem to inspire me, so don't hesitate. You can reach me through my Facebook Messenger at Sandra Holt, or join the group on Facebook called the Horse Fix, and that way you can chat with everyone. I'd like to say thank you to Nora Daunt for joining me today, and I look forward to the rest of this weekend with you, nora, and thanks to all of you who take the time out to listen to my podcasts. It means a whole lot to me. It's time to say goodbye and, as always, my wish for you is that all of your blues be ribbons. Bye-bye bye-bye.