The Horse Fix
The Horse Fix
The Power of Connection: Plugging in to People, Horses, and Life, with Pastor Joel Ashford.
Have you ever witnessed the transformative effect of a horse's gentle nuzzle, or the way trust can be silently woven between human and animal? I'm Dr. Sandra Holt, and this episode is a heartwarming testament to the power of connection and redemption. Joining me is Joel Ashford, pastor and leader of Big Love Ministries, who unveils the strength found in commitments and the profound lessons we learn from our equine friends.
Joel's journey from the depths of addiction to the beacon of hope he is today is nothing short of miraculous. We traverse his early struggles, the pivotal moment of change in a Harris County jail cell, and the birth of his ministry—a story laced with the promise of hope for anyone grappling with their darkest hour. His insight of the horse underscores the therapeutic might of these majestic creatures, showcasing their role in mending broken spirits and guiding lost souls back to a path of purpose.
As our conversation winds down, I share a slice of my own story, detailing how I confronted personal loss and the struggle to reclaim faith. From the despair of a seemingly endless winter to the rejuvenation of spring, our narratives intertwine, revealing the resilience of the human spirit. This episode promises listeners more than just stories; it offers a heartfelt embrace, encouraging you to hold fast to your commitments, foster trust, and perhaps find in your own life a way to turn your blues into ribbons.
May all your blues be ribbons
Music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music, music. Hi there, everyone, and thanks for tuning back in to the Horse Fix, where you can get a horse fix and perhaps fix your horse at the same time. I'm Dr Sandra Holt and I'm coming to you from my studio in Longview, texas. Today. I have a special guest, joel Ashford, and he's going to introduce himself in a minute, but before we get on with the episode, I would like to say that something I always forget to ask, and be sure to subscribe to this episode. If you haven't done so already, give me a thumbs up and a good rating. You know that always helps to get the word out, and you know my intent with this podcast is to help you, the listener, and you can help me to help you by subscribing and sharing.
Speaker 1:Those of you that have listened before know that this podcast is not just about horses, it's about life, it's about you, and it is about horses as well and how that connection can come into play. And so Joel Ashford is here today to help me define the word connection as it relates to you human to human and human to horse. So let's get started. I have Joel here in the studio with me and I'm so excited. This was kind of an impromptu type thing. He came to take me to lunch and I said how about doing a podcast with me? And he said sure, once you finish listening to this, you'll know why. He said sure, he's just kind of one of those natural people that loves to help and talk and he's actually a pastor of a ministry called Big Love Ministries.
Speaker 2:Which stands for Believe in God's Love.
Speaker 1:Believes in God's Love, and he's such a special person to me, and you'll see why in a minute. So, joel, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2:Sure, I'm a pastor, a husband, a father, a grandfather Not a great grandfather yet, thank God and I spend a lot of time. You know I work for a land investor in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, but my main passion is ministry. You know I work with a lot of men and women that battle addictions that have gone through you know just life, you know, to a tough life that we've all had. You know, some worse than others.
Speaker 2:I also do a lot of prison ministry, where I'm in the prisons, both both men and women prisons, and you know one of the things that I believe that's kept me connected to all that is my passion. I talk a lot about commitment, being committed to things, and you know, in order to be committed, you have to have passion, and I think that's going to fit right into what you want to talk about today as a matter of fact. So, but yeah, that's, my wife's name is Tammy. She travels, does all the prison ministries with me. I've been doing it for about 13 years and I enjoy what I do, and anything that I can do to lift up the name of Jesus is what I do. My faith is in him.
Speaker 1:So I know about programs in the community of prisons that have they're horse related. Yes, have you seen any of those Actually?
Speaker 2:yes, there's several in the Huntsville area, the Lane Murray unit, which is a women's prison in Gatesville. They actually have a one of the support dogs where they bring in support dogs and I forget, I forget the name of the support dogs where they bring in support dogs and I forget, I forget the name of the company. But they're in every day and work with the ladies, a lot of the ladies that have mental handicaps or some of mentally challenged or just handicapped in general. They, uh, they work with the animals and man. They say what a difference oh, yeah, it makes with the animals.
Speaker 2:Um, I haven't really dealt one-on-one with any of the horse uh facilities, but I do know they're out there, especially in the huntsville area.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, today's episode is all about connection and I believe that you know people that have challenges in life, for instance and I don't know what I'm talking about as far as prisoners, but I do know that when people do have challenges, many times it's about disconnect, and they're disconnected with loved ones, disconnected with people that could lift them up and could give them opportunities, disconnected with life, and they kind of get inside of themselves and they turn to drugs and they turn to all kinds of other things and the animal and in my case particularly the horse can bring about a connection to the human, that they're not judged, that they can see results, that they can find themselves feeling good about themselves in an area that they hadn't thought that they might right, right, and I don't know much about horses, like you don't know much about inmates but you have cowboy boots.
Speaker 1:I do have boots.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, I I I still wear my boots a lot um, and your jeans and my jeans. Yes, ma'am but you know, one of the things though, that and it's with anything it whether it be a dog, a horse, a human a relationship. It's all about connection. But you, you know, with connection you have to have communication.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know and you have to have trust. And you know I've seen TV shows.
Speaker 2:You know Bonanza was one of my old, you know back in the day, right To where you see the horses out there bucking people and bucking people, and you know, the key word there and it has to do with our faith too is brokenness, you know, for? For in order for god to break a person, the person has to want to be broken and it has to believe in the person that's trying to break them oh, you would make a great horse trainer.
Speaker 2:Well, see the horse, I would think the same thing that the horse has to have a little trust in the trainer. Yes, because the here's the thing with what I know about horses when you break a horse, you don't break his, his, his, his character, you don't get. In other words, when you break something, the reason god breaks us is to shape and mold us and to be the person he wants us to be like a piece of clay that you break apart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay you shape and mold. So when you do that with a horse, the horse is designed for a particular purpose. God created a horse to ride, to pl plow, to pull buggies. That is the purpose of the horse that God created. Just like with people, we're created for a purpose, but we're hard-headed just sometimes like the horses for which he tells me so in order for the horse to want to be broken. Brokenness is a form of discipline. Discipline is a form of love.
Speaker 1:Okay, I didn't think of it that way. So what we're trying to do with a horse is discipline it.
Speaker 2:Yes, because we want to break it, because we want it to be broken, to be used for what it was created to be used for.
Speaker 1:Okay, so break that down for me as far as. How does that lead to trust?
Speaker 2:Trust Okay. Well, how did you trust Wayne?
Speaker 1:How did I Through experiences? Okay, yeah, well, how did you trust Wayne. How did I Through experiences?
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, so you've probably had some bad experiences and you've had some good experiences, yes, but when you meet somebody, there has to be a connection. You know you have to have a connection and sometimes you may have a bad connection at first. Okay, so how do you fix that connection? You got to communicate.
Speaker 1:You got to communicate, okay. So how do you fix that connection? You got to communicate, you got to communicate, yes, and I feel like there has to be a current going from one to the other, like a plug board. You plug it in and then it takes more than plug it in. Then you got to turn the switch on.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And that's the commitment. The interest is plugging it in, but the commitment is pressing the on button.
Speaker 2:And the connection. It has to be connected, you know, with whether it's faith or a horse or a relationship. You can have a plug, you can have a lamp in this office it's a beautiful office, by the way, Thank you and have a lamp sitting there and say, my gosh, why can't this light connect? Well, until you plug it into the source, Right, you know? And what's the source? With a horse? With a horse, I would think and I've never done this, so correct me if I'm wrong that horse has to feel connected to you.
Speaker 1:Yes, there has to be a connection there there is and a trust, and that comes with understanding. I told you this earlier today there was a man, he wrote several inspirational books and he was a businessman, and he said first seek to understand, then seek to be understood. And I believe once you understand them, then you have the information and the input needed for them, for you to work on them understanding you. But you know it takes active listening and unless you listen actively and you listen with the intent to understand, you don't hear them with the intent to reply or to react or to, or even many of us are guilty of thinking of what we're going to say next as this person is talking hello, that's me well, I'm guilty of it too, and you know, if you truly listen and actively listen, then you have a better chance of understanding and and thus connecting and it's kind of like that old saying goes that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care
Speaker 2:there you go, that's good, you know, that's good so listening is caring, you know, I know when my wife is going, having a bad day and she wants to come home and vent, yeah. Us as men, we're fixers, we want to fix it. Oh yes, you know.
Speaker 1:But she said I don't want you to fix it, I just want you to listen Exactly, and I can get real aggravated with Wayne when he tries to fix me, you know, and tries to help me when I'm not wanting help. I'm just wanting them to listen.
Speaker 2:And I think the horse does the same thing. Maybe sometimes that horse is just saying listen to me.
Speaker 1:Exactly, and you know that's what we have to do when we're working with horses and training them is we must listen and actively asking questions so that you can connect with a person asking good questions.
Speaker 1:I heard something one day that the person said let's see friends ask questions, enemies question you that's good yeah yeah, and I think if you sincerely ask questions of the horse, you know, as I'm riding the horse, I'm saying are you comfortable? Are you ready for this departure? Are you connected with me or are you out? Are you looking out of the arena? Are you doing something else, having that horse commit themselves to you and you committing to them so that you can get the job done?
Speaker 2:You know, there's a movie that came out that just had a second part avatar. There was a part in the movie where the, the, the avatar, which is like a pretend bot guy, a cartoon figure, has to connect with these dragons, these horse, these dragon horses that they fly in the movie. And the way that they connect is the avatar has a tail and the, the horse dragon, whatever you call it has a receptor connector. So when the avatar hops on the the horse dragon thing, yeah, it grabs its tail and tries to put connect into the connector and a lot of times they don't connect and they'll go from from dragon horse to dragon horse and the avatar finally finds one and it connects, but before it connects it bucks, it tries to throw it off, it tries to kill him, it tries to do everything in its power but because of the consistency of the avatar in the persistence, it it finally breaks and when, once it's connected, it's connected for life well, that's profound and joel, without even knowing it.
Speaker 1:You mentioned a word that's so important in horse training, that's consistency. Oh, I bet yeah, and not giving up. Joel, tell me a little bit about how life brought you to where you are, where I am at today.
Speaker 2:It's a good question, you know it's. It's my testimony when was 10, as a little kid, I started experimenting with alcohol at 10 years old, drinking and using marijuana, and you know it just took me. You know that's the thing about sin and addictions. You know it starts out fun, you know, and so it started out with my buddies smoking a little marijuana and sneaking in my dad's gun cabinet and having a little bit of his gym beam and see, I can't relate to that because I I was what everybody called the square chick the square.
Speaker 2:I was a square chick.
Speaker 1:I did get invited to the parties, but I never did anything. So they called me the square chicken, and I was always really bent on being the perfect daughter amen so I I. It's hard for me to relate to that, even though I, I personally know several kids.
Speaker 2:They're that's going down, that well, that's, that's the journey I went down and for 32 years it just got worse and worse into addictions. And you know, before I knew it, I had lost my wife, I lost my children. My life was just completely out of control, had been arrested for drugs multiple times.
Speaker 1:Did you want to get better?
Speaker 2:I wanted to so many times and I guess that's why it's called an addiction. You know, the apostle Paul says in Romans he said I do the things that I don't want to do, I do the things I hate. So if it's not me that's doing them, it's the sin that dwells in me. And that's how I felt is like I wanted to quit, but I couldn't quit, and you know to lose your children and your wife and your home and your job. And you're still in that addiction. And it came a time, 18 years ago, I was arrested in Harris County in Houston, texas, for possession for my fifth felony, and I'd had enough. I you know, I fell on my knees and I said, god, if you're real, if you're really the God you say you are, that I've heard about man, if you will get me out of this pit of hell that I've been living in for 32 years, I will serve you the rest of my life.
Speaker 1:So did you have a history of relationship with God?
Speaker 2:Was your family religious.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I grew up I'm Hispanic, you know so the majority of the time was growing up in a Catholic church, but I wasn't there. I was there because mom said you go to church, you can't go out and play. So I was never there, for the right reasons, as a lot of us you know, growing up that way. But you know, I got introduced to a place called Victory Outreach Recovery Center and I had no choice but to go there. I needed help. I knew if I didn't get help I was going to die.
Speaker 1:Did you go to prison?
Speaker 2:No, never went to prison. I was arrested multiple times and the last time, when I cried out to God, I asked him man, if you're real, show me, and if you will show me, I will serve you the rest of my life. And that's been 16 and a half years ago that I've been out from my last arrest. I've been clean and sober ever since.
Speaker 1:Wow, so, just like that, just like that.
Speaker 2:Just like that. Well, I say just like that, it was a struggle getting out. It was hard. I say just like that, it was a struggle getting out, it was hard. It like giving up anything food, addictions, you know, and there's just so many things that can grab a hold of you. But for me it was drugs and alcohol. So when I'm I'm leaving Harris County jail and I heard a voice, I said man, I am never coming back here again. And I heard a voice said yes, you are. And I remember Sandy looking behind me and up no, I'm not.
Speaker 1:Yes, you are.
Speaker 2:No, I'm not. I did it three times, oh my God. And finally the third time, something about the number three with God. On the third day, he rose.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And on the third time I caught he said you're coming back to bring glory to me, you're going to come back to the prisons oh my gosh, you're going to come to the jails and I remember walking down the stairs and I saw officer jimenez, who was an officer when I was inside in the jail, and he said oh, we'll see you next time, joel, we know you'll be back yeah and turned around and I said Officer Jimenez, the next time you see me in this jail I'll be preaching the gospel.
Speaker 2:And he laughed at me. So 18 months went past. I got approved through the state to go into the prisons and the jails. Well, guess where? The first place I went was to where I came out of.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And I saw Officer Jimenez was to where I came out of. Wow, and I saw Officer Jimenez. It wasn't coincidence. I saw him, yeah. And I said, officer Jimenez, you don't remember me, do you? He says no, I don't. And I said I'm Joel Ashford. I worked in your kitchen and he was an Asian-Hispanic guy.
Speaker 2:He says, oh, ashford, ashford you come back and I said I told you the next time you saw me and I held up my Bible and I said I'd be preaching the gospel and, sandy, he embraced me with such a hug and tears came down his eyes and you could tell that he was like wow, you know. So that's been 13 and a half years ago.
Speaker 1:And so that was the first person you impacted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and when I was in jail I had already started Big Love Ministries. Inside I had a big Hispanic guy come up to me and say Big Love, just in a real deep voice, and I thought my cellmate said, oh, he's calling you fat big.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I thought about big B-I-, big, big, and the first thing that came to me was the notorious big, which was a rapper and I don't listen to rap, so I don't know where that came from.
Speaker 2:And I heard the holy spirit said no, I'm the notorious big wow so I named, I started having bible studies inside county jail with big love ministries, got oh be darned Got out and went and got my DBA and got my 501c3 and been doing prison ministries ever since. And now we're starting a podcast show kind of like yours and God's just on the move. And he did. He showed me that he was real and I'm keeping my word by continuing to serve him.
Speaker 1:Well, that's wonderful and you know, by being on this podcast, you're reaching people across the world. I have listeners in Africa and Japan and Canada and oh gosh, germany, uk All over, all over the place. Yeah, and it's fun to see who's listening and I get great responses from people and I think you might touch someone today.
Speaker 2:Well, that's you know. I told the Lord a long time ago if you will use me to touch one person's life, just one, it'll be worth it, and I pray that that's happened, if not more. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, you have a very, very important role in this world and I commend you for keeping your passion through that, because I know it's not always easy. No, you make it sound glorious and joyful, and I'm sure it is, but I'm sure there are challenges along the way.
Speaker 2:Sure, I mean, it's like anything else in life. I mean, in order to to have passion, you have to have commitment. You know you have to be committed to your passion, and that's just. And vice versa, don't you think? Yeah, I think vice versa, yeah. And and you know, people tell me all the time oh, my god, your face lights up when you talk about the Lord. But that's just. You know it is and it does. And you know our ministry is Big Love Ministries. Our website is BigLoveMinistriesorg, in case you may want to look at it, kind of see what we do.
Speaker 2:But you know, I just do what he's called me to do. And you know what he says in his word that if you will give me your life, I will give you a life. And that's what I've done. Is I gave him my old life, the old Joel? Am I perfect? Not at all. That's my life. I mean, we all have our character defects, but what I have done is surrendered all the ways I used to live and I've given it to him, and he's just blessed our socks off with a good life and you know, we're able to travel and we do ministry together.
Speaker 1:Me and my wife go everywhere together so but yeah so let me ask you this, and I ask this a lot from people that join me on this podcast. I'm going to ask you two questions. The first one is your favorite success. The second question is your favorite failure.
Speaker 2:I would have to say my favorite success, and I know it sounds kind of corny. I've been in sales my whole life, gotten sales awards, sales trips, but about, I would say, nine or ten years ago I got an award and it said Outstanding Volunteer to Going into the Prisons. And you know I've since then got rid of all the awards.
Speaker 2:They don't mean anything but the only thing that I have is still acknowledged by a pastor that's been pastoring for a long time, and I received this award. So that was my greatest I'm not going to say greatest achievement, I guess it was. It made me feel really good at the time. You know it's like, wow, okay, I'm finally accomplishing something in my life. Yes, and then the greatest defeat in my life was abandoning my children through drug addiction. Oh yeah, you know I lost my two older sons through drug addiction. My third son, I had to leave his mother to stay clean and sober when he was a young boy. So I didn't abandon him, but I had to leave.
Speaker 1:You had to leave.
Speaker 2:But we've been, you know. But since then God has restored my relationship with my children. As a matter of fact, my oldest son, Christopher, just six months ago, called me out of the blue and said Dad, I got to talk to you, yeah, and he said look, I forgive you, I love you, I've given my life to the Lord and now he's just on fire for Christ. I'm actually going to see him next week and we're going to go to a jail in Mississippi and go preach the gospel together.
Speaker 1:So, you know, it's, it's, uh, that's it Well you know, one of my mottos is that you know, the bigger the challenge, the more we learn. And I think without challenges in our life and without defeat, we don't grow, and if we don't grow, we die. Yeah, thomas.
Speaker 2:Edison said I failed a thousand times to do the. I forget exactly the terminology, but I tried to make a light bulb a million times and failed. Yeah, but the million and one time I did it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know so it doesn't.
Speaker 2:I mean we're all going to fail in life, but you know what you just got to pick your feet up and keep going, you know, especially when you're passionate about it. You know, I know you've told me stories about horses that you've had to put down horses. You've told me stories about horses that you've had to put down horses, you've had to let go, and your accident with your wrist on a horse and now he's being stubborn and but you never quit. You just keep going because you're passionate about it right, right, you know, and and that's you know.
Speaker 2:I think that's what it is. Once you get passionate about something, nobody can stop you. And the thing about passion is is vision and I was told this the other day and I shared with this at lunch with you is that you have to be careful who you share your vision with, because not everybody's going to have the same vision nor the same passion that you're going to have in what you're doing. So if you're listening and you're passionate about something and you have a vision and people aren't on the same page with you, who cares? Right, you keep doing what you feel you're led to do, what you're passionate about it, and you just keep putting one foot in front of the other, because you will succeed. We are created to succeed.
Speaker 1:And we only have one entity to prove anything to that's right, and that's God.
Speaker 2:And yes, and he said, I came to give you life, and life more abundant.
Speaker 1:Right, that's wonderful. Well, you know, I'm not going to lie. This end of this winter I got into quite a funk and it lasted. It lasted a while and it was through a series of events, I believe my mother passing and my horse hurting me, and then my favorite person in the whole world, my grandson, moved out of state, threw me down I mean down, and no matter what Wayne would say or no matter how bad, I beat myself up and said you know why are you doing this? You know you have everything to live for you. You know you have everything to be, to be, feel, blessed about. I could not pull myself out of it. And then spring came and I started planting flowers and started feeling a connection again. And so, while I was down, like I was totally disconnected with everybody and everything and, sorry to say, maybe even God, because I was just. I was just, I just shut down. And it's just recently that I pulled myself up by my bootstraps. What do you say, joel, to someone who gets and starts spiraling down like that?
Speaker 2:We all do it, you know, even you. Oh, I have. Oh, yes, I've been in that. I've been in that. I've been in it the last few months with all this media and stuff. I'm having to learn. I'm frustrated and aggravated.
Speaker 1:Joel's working on his new podcast.
Speaker 2:He's having frustration yeah learning this computer is not easy, but you know one thing that my pastor told me a while back and he went through that too and he got angry with God, you know, and I talk to a lot of people that are angry with him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If I could tell you anything, don't be angry with him, because he's not angry with you.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:You know, life gets in the way Trials and tribulations happen to us. You know, jesus said, man, you will suffer for my namesake. He said that they hated me first, so they will hate you, and a lot of times we're our own worst enemies. True, you know, but you mentioned about being disconnected. See what you did and what so many of us do is we unplug the connector.
Speaker 2:We, you know, there's an old story about this old man and old woman and they're riding in their pickup truck and the lady said, man, I remember back in the day when, man, you were right next to me in this truck and we were in love, and the old man said well, honey, I'm still driving and I'm still in the same seat. You're the one that scooted over.
Speaker 2:So you know there was a disconnect and a lot of times that's what we do and don't realize it is. We get in that I call it a pity potty party and that's what we do. We've all done it and that's okay. But the key to it is what are you going to do to get yourself out of it? Yes, and the best thing to do is get reconnected. That lamp right there is never going to come back on unless you reconnect it to the electrical source. And our source is God. He is our source and he loves us. He loved us so much when we were just horrible sinners that he died a horrific death for us. So when we get in that position, we just have to say you know what, lord, I'm mad at you, I'm mad at myself.
Speaker 2:He already knows yeah you know, it's kind of like our kids when we know they're up to no good, or we know they're, they're upset and all we're waiting on is them to say, hey mom, hey dad, I'm going through this right we can't make them do it, but we already know what they're going through yes because we've been there.
Speaker 2:And I was saying I've been there, done that, made the t-shirt right, so and I think he looks at us the same way he's like man, I'm right here, I feel for you, I love you, I know what you're going through. All you got to do is turn to me and just tell me yeah, and I promise you I'll get you through it. Because he says I'll never leave you nor forsake you.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That never means never. So you know, if you're listening and you're in a position like that right now and you're kind of in a pity party or a funk or just whatever it is, you know, the best thing, the best way to battle the world is on your knees. Just get on your knees and say, lord, I'm hurt, tired. You know, I have cussed at god. I'll be honest, I've cussed at him, I've screamed at him, I've hollered at him and he always had his arms open for me and he's. He's there for that, for us. So I just encourage, if you're going through that man, just find us a place in your home, in your car car, in the shower, in the bathroom, in the backyard, wherever it may be, and just say, lord, I'm angry man, I'm hurt, I'm going through this, I'm struggling in this area, and I promise you, I promise you he'll answer you.
Speaker 2:It may not be in the way you think he's going to answer you.
Speaker 1:That's happened.
Speaker 2:But you know he always does and you know God brought me into your life right before your mom passed away, so I had the opportunity to meet her and just a beautiful lady. And then I was there when she got sick, and you know so we've always kept y'all in prayer and it's not easy losing a loved one.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the cool part about when you lose them, you haven't lost them forever.
Speaker 1:True.
Speaker 2:You know, if they have a relationship with the Lord, they're in heaven in their glorious body, and you'll see her again one day.
Speaker 1:I know, and you know, joel, you mentioned something at lunch today and you'll have to help me with this. You said something about, you know, talking about challenges, and you said something like he won't lead you to it unless he can take you through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he won't lead you to it if he's not going to get you through it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get you through it. So I think you know, guys, I think that's a great place to stop. I think remember that that the Lord won't lead you to it unless he can get you through it.
Speaker 2:And I want to leave you with this and I'll share this with you guys that I heard. That just really made a lot of sense to me where there's a lack of commitment, there's a lack of completion.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that so you've got.
Speaker 2:Whatever you're going through, you've got to be committed to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know, folks, whether it comes to human to human or human to horse, have that commitment and then you'll have your completion and you'll find a connection. So that's all for today, and until next time may all your blues be ribbons.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye thank you so much.