The Horse Fix
The Horse Fix
Beware Of Scammers: Learn From My $14,000.00 Mistake
Hi everybody. You're listening to the Horse Fix, where you can get a horse fix. You can fix your horse and you might even help yourself along the way. I'm Dr Sandra Holt and I'm coming to you from my studio here in Longview, texas. For those of you that are new to this channel, thanks for joining us. I think you'll enjoy the podcast. Thanks for joining us. I think you'll enjoy the podcast. You know it's all about for me helping you, the listener, to navigate your way through life, and I like to use the horse to help do that. You would be surprised at just how many parallels there are with horse issues and people issues.
Speaker 1:In today's podcast, I'm going to talk about a couple of different things. The first is I'm going to answer a question to someone who is asking how to find a horse trainer. I'll give them some tips on what to look for and what to avoid. Then I'm going to tell a story and what to avoid. Then I'm going to tell a story. It's my own story. It's a cautionary tale about how I was conned into sending several I mean several thousand dollars for a saddle that never existed. So let's get started.
Speaker 1:Many of you have asked me to give you an update on what I talked about last week regarding my surgery and regarding Willow my horse. So I'll start by saying that I haven't had my surgery yet. Turns out that there needs to be some more testing and another procedure before the doctor does the surgery. So on Tuesday I go in for the last procedure and then the doctor will decide when seizure and then the doctor will decide when to do the actual surgery. So that's that, and you know, am I looking forward to it? No, but I am looking forward to once I've recovered, because I know that I'll feel like a new person. So there's a blessing there About Willow my horse. Well, I'm looking for the blessing there. I haven't found it yet. I know there will be one somewhere and I just don't understand it yet and haven't found it. But she is not going to get better. The vet told me that she has a solidified ligament and those things do not improve. So she cannot be shown anymore. I can't ride her anymore. He suggested that she be a broodmare and she will make an excellent broodmare because she is beautiful, she's well bred and she's got a great mind. She's very kind and she's very sweet. So she will make an excellent broodmare. Therefore, I'm going to find the perfect home for her. I'm not in the breeding business anymore, I'm just too old to do that. So I will find just the right place for her, where she can be a horse and have babies and be out in the pasture and, you know, do all the things that horses really want to do. So, oh, there's the blessing, I found it my horse gets to be a horse instead of a show machine. So, anyway, there you go.
Speaker 1:Okay, I have a letter here from someone who wishes to be anonymous. She writes this Hello, I need your help. I am looking for a new trainer. The one I have now is not working out. I think I rushed into hiring him. Can you suggest someone for the all-around AQHA and paint horse? I show an amateur pleasure horsemanship, showmanship and trail.
Speaker 1:Please do not mention my name on your podcast. My current trainer does not know. I'm looking. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sorry that you're not doing well with your current trainer. That happens. It happens more often than you might realize and, yes, a lot of times it happens because we do rush into trying to find the right person. We're desperate. We need help right away. We maybe see them at a horse show. They look like they're doing well in a show ring, and so we approach them at the show and say, hey, can you be my trainer? So I get it. Or someone has maybe recommended them, and so you feel comfortable with that, and then you realize that you're not a good fit. So, yeah, that happens and I'm sorry. At any rate, yes, I can help you find a new trainer. Now, you didn't mention where you were from. Obviously you want to be anonymous, so I get that. But depending on the area that you're in and depending on how far you are capable of or willing to travel to your trainer or willing to travel to your trainer, then that can make a big difference.
Speaker 1:Years ago I trained with a wonderful trainer, steve Heckman. He was in Texas. He would have clients from all over the United States. They would fly in off and on to take a lesson from him and then they'd meet him at the shows and he'd keep their horse and train it. There's all kinds of options that you do have there. I personally like it when my trainer can be fairly close to me so that I can go and get regular lessons. I used to be a trainer. I gave up my professional training status a few years ago and now I've regained my amateur status so that I could compete on that level. The amateur has a division, as you know, in AQHA for people that are 70 and over, so I was attracted to that. So that's where I am now. So I have a trainer.
Speaker 1:This trainer is magnificent and I've been to a lot of trainers in my life, depending on what I was doing at the time whether I was doing Western Pleasure or doing reining or riding hunt seat or dressage trail, doing just halter and I've had to change trainers when there hasn't been a good fit or I've relocated those kind of things. So I know what you're up against At any rate. Well, if you're in Louisiana or in Texas near Louisiana, I highly recommend my trainer. His name is Alan Shaw Shaw Performance Horses. You can look for that website or look on his Facebook. He is extraordinary and a great work, ethic, christian, personable and very legitimate. He's been around the horn. He knows horses inside and out. I definitely would if you're in this area. He lives near Shreveport, louisiana, so if you're in that area at all, I travel about an hour and a half to go to him and it's well worth the little bit of miles that I travel, but you know there are lots of good trainers out there and depending, like I said, your location, I will contact you and help you find a trainer.
Speaker 1:In the meantime, I want to give you some things to think about while you're looking for a trainer, and you may be able to just find it on your own. First, you want to look for someone who is not only a good trainer but also a good coach. People overlook that when they're picking a trainer. Sometimes Trainers you know in the show ring that are really hugely successful aren't always good coaches. They're typically high on the scale of accolades because they spend all their time training horses and they don't really concentrate on coaching others. And if you're an amateur in these different divisions, you want someone who knows how to be a coach and not only train on your horse but really can connect with you and coach you. I think that's very important.
Speaker 1:I hired a trainer once that was a very famous trainer and so I thought you know, I'm going to go for the best and so I can be the best. I actually bought the horse from him and then I just kept the horse there. It was in Scottsdale and I kept the horse there and then would go drive a couple hours to have a lesson once a week, and then sometimes he wouldn't even be there and he would forget or he would have something to do but didn't call or tell me. But I overlooked that in the beginning because you know, darn it, he was really good, he won a lot. So I really wanted to train with him. So I, you know, I let that pass, but then, as he was coaching me, he was not very articulate.
Speaker 1:I think I've told this story before and on any of my other podcasts, but it's worth telling again. If I did, at any rate, it would go something like this he would be standing at the edge of the pen, he would keep tobacco in his cheek, you know, and he would. He'd spit and then he'd say Sandy, run your horse down to the other end of the arena, sandy, run your horse down to the other end of the arena. So, not knowing exactly what he meant, I would ride my horse very fast to the other side of the arena and he would go nope, and he'd spit and he'd go do it again. So I would do it again and he'd go nope, and then he'd spit and he'd go nope, and then he'd spit and he'd go do it again. And you know this would go on for a while and he would never tell me what I was doing wrong. He would just say, do it again, which indicated that I wasn't doing it right, particularly when he would spit and say, nope, I didn't learn anything. And so it turned out that, yes, he knew how to train a horse and he could definitely communicate with a horse, but he could not communicate with people. I didn't last very long with him and found a trainer that could work with me and coach me.
Speaker 1:So that's, I think, an important issue that don't just get stars in your eyes and look for the one that wins all the time. Really check them out. Talk to some of their amateur clients. Go to shows and watch their amateur show instead of watching the trainer show, and then you'll see how effective he is with people. Secondly, you want someone who is kind to horses. If he's jerking on your horse's face, if he's whipping your horse, if he's excessively spurring your horse and acting angry on the horse, to me that's the biggest red flag there is, and I would not pick that trainer. Yeah, maybe he would get the job done, but to what expense to your horse? How is your horse's attitude and how is your horse's morale after this guy or this woman steps off? I would really be diligent in checking out just what his manners are, how he handles a horse on the ground and how he rides the horse. They don't have to be. I'm not saying to look for a timid trainer, one that kind of pussyfoots around and doesn't get the job done. You do want an assertive trainer because you want them to be effective but not mean-spirited.
Speaker 1:Next, I think you should look for a trainer that has good help. Any person that's in charge, you know, a boss, a business owner, a trainer they're only as strong as their weakest employee. That trainer might be very diligent about filling water bowls and stuff, but you know, if his help isn't, then that's not a good situation. So I would definitely observe that. Find a way to visit this potential trainer, without giving him notice, of course. The first time you have an appointment with him. Tour the grounds. You maybe watch him ride and look around. But then say to him you know I'd like to come back sometime. Is it okay if I just kind of pop over? If they say no, then don't go. Don't go back, because anyone who says no, you can't just pop over, tells me that they're not wanting people to observe them in their training process. And there's a reason why because they might be hard-handed or do things to the horse you wouldn't approve of. So basically what I'm saying to you really take your time to find the right person. When you two are talking to each other in the very beginning, tell him your expectations and then ask him to tell his to you. Many trainers have certain expectations of their clients and you'll want to know that before going in. A good coach will ask you what your goals are, and that's important for them to know so that they can get you there. So I hope this helps. Like I said, I'll contact you later and we can talk a little bit about specific needs and why your current trainer is not working out, and that might give me some insight as to who would work out for you. Thanks for writing in. I really appreciate it. So now here's my story about how I got conned out of over $14,000. I am going to try to recall it exactly how it went, because I think that would be most helpful for everyone, and I'll try and be brief at the same time and I'll try not to leave anything out I've been wanting a Harris show saddle for quite some time now a Harris show saddle for quite some time now.
Speaker 1:I do have a beautiful show saddle right now. It's a Sean Ryan. It has lots of silver on it. It's beautifully tooled. But I've really, really wanted a Harris show saddle. Well, they're very expensive. The new ones run up to $22,000 and up ones run up to $22,000 and up. I know you're thinking whoa for a saddle, but if you're in the show circuit you're familiar with those kind of costs. You can actually buy one online used for a lot less and if people have taken good care of them, you can get one that feels new yet is used. So that was my mission.
Speaker 1:I went online to find a show saddle and I found the perfect one. It was absolutely gorgeous. I mean really stunning. It had all the bells and whistles. It was just beautiful and I was so excited. The bells and whistles, it was just beautiful and I was so excited.
Speaker 1:So I private messaged the person that was selling it and asked about it and she said it was $10,000. So I thought you know, that's a good price for a Harris saddle, but I had my budget set at seven. So I told her that and she said okay, I'll sell it to you for 7,000. Oh, I was over the moon. So I said what do I do next? And she said wire the money. Here's the account to wire it into and then I'll ship you the saddle. Well, I know that there's scams out there with everything, including horse tack. So I decided to do my due diligence here. So I told her. I said okay, you know there's a lot of scamming going out there. Could you please write on a piece of paper my name and the date and put it next to the saddle and take a picture of it and send it to me? That way I'm assured that you do have the saddle. And she said I'll do that. So she did that. So I felt pretty good.
Speaker 1:But then I still thought, you know, I better go a little further. So I called the administrator of the Facebook page and asked him about this lady that was selling the saddle. And he said oh, yeah, she's good. She sells a lot of saddles on this page and she's good for it. So now I was very confident that everything was fine, and I couldn't tell you just how excited I was to get this saddle.
Speaker 1:I thought about it all the time. I screenshotted the picture of it from the computer, put it on my phone, you know, on the front page of my phone, so I'd see it every day. And oh my gosh. So I wired the money. Well, it was supposed to arrive the next day and it didn't come. I wasn't too concerned about it. I figured it might have taken her a little longer than she expected to get it fixed up and mailed out. So I did message her, though, and said you know, I didn't get the saddle yet, and she says here's the tracking number and here is the web page for the freight company that I used. She says it's out of my hands now because I shipped it. So I went about trying to track it. I got onto the website of the freight company and I put in the tracking number, and it came back pending.
Speaker 1:So I emailed the freight company they didn't have a phone number on their website and asked about it, and they said your saddle is pending shipment because it needs to have an insurance policy on it before we ship it. We don't ship anything like this without an insurance policy on it before we ship it. We don't ship anything like this without an insurance policy. I said, well, the shipper didn't give you that. And they said, no, that's up to you. I said, well, I wasn't aware. So I said how much is the insurance? And he said well, it's $2,500. But he says you're refunded that once we get it shipped out. And he said you get the refund at the same time that you get your saddle, simultaneously. I said oh, that's weird. But okay, I said, but I get it refunded. He goes, yes, and we're doing all this through messaging.
Speaker 1:You know, I sent the $2,500 PayPal. Then I waited. He had said it'll be out the next day and I waited and it didn't come. I waited another day, it didn't come. I didn't want to be a pest, but I wanted my saddle. I was too excited. So finally I messaged and I said I didn't get my saddle. And he said oh, you know, it's been sitting in the warehouse now for a good five to seven days. He said so you're going to have to pay the warehouse fee in order to get it. He says once you pay that warehouse fee, then we can release it and send it to you. I said, oh goodness. I said how much is that going to be? And he said $1,500. I was taken back by that, but I really wanted my saddle and he said it would go out the next day if I sent it. So I did another PayPal for it the next day and it didn't come. And it didn't come.
Speaker 1:I messaged back and I said I still didn't get my saddle. He said, well, let me see where it is. He said, oh, it's in a town right near you. But he said before we can get it any further, we've got to get a Pennsylvania to Texas tax on it, because it was coming from Pennsylvania. He says we have to get a tax from that to go. And that was another $1,000 or something like that.
Speaker 1:And I said am I limit with my PayPal? He said, well, that's okay. I said can I use my debit card? He goes no, we don't take debit cards or credit cards. But you can go to Walmart and get gift cards from Walmart. And he named a couple other places Walgreens. I said, well, I don't understand the gift card thing. He says, well, that's just our policy. And so he says but don't worry. He said that's also refundable. I said, oh, okay. So I went ahead and got the thousand dollars, I think it was, or 1,200 gift cards and electronically sent them to him.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't get the saddle then, and I didn't get it for another couple more days, and so I messaged back. I still didn't get the saddle. He said well, we never got the funds. I checked on it and they said they'd sent it. I said well, it said it was sent. He says we never got it, ma'am, so unless you send us it again, we won't be able to ship your saddle. He said but if you send it, you'll have it within three hours, because it's just in the town nearby you. I said well, how about I do this? I said how about I just go to the warehouse, where it is, since it's close, and pick it up myself? He said no, ma'am, they won't release it.
Speaker 1:So now I'm starting to get a little worried about this. It just didn't seem right. Mind you, I have not told anybody about this saddle, I've not told any of my friends, I've not told my husband, nobody, because I just didn't want their opinion, because in the back of my mind I'm thinking hmm, I might have been scammed here. But I didn't want anybody to tell me that because I was now emotionally attached to this saddle and I really wanted it. In retrospect you know the scammers know this, they're very sophisticated at what they do spec. You know the scammers know this, they're very sophisticated at what they do by the time I got finished paying all of these fees that they said that I owed, I've now paid for this saddle over $14,000. And it's been a couple of weeks in the process.
Speaker 1:I was pretty worried about it. At that point I messaged and I threatened them. I said I'm going to call the police, I'm going to get the fraud department involved if I don't get my saddle. He said all right, all right. And I said I want my refund. He says all right, all right, we'll get the saddle going and we'll get your refund processed. So the next thing that happens is I actually get a phone call from Citibank.
Speaker 1:Now the guy that worked at Citibank that I talked to had a foreign accent and I was a little bit leery of that. It sounded like he was from Nigeria or somewhere like that. The bells and whistles finally hit and the red flag finally flew right in my face when he said ma'am, we have issued your refund and it's sitting in your bank and it's pending, but they can't release it to you until you pay us back some money. I said what do you mean? He says well, they accidentally sent you twice the amount of refund, so it was going to be about $6,500. We paid you $13,000. So we need that back and then, once we get our part back, then we can release those funds to you.
Speaker 1:Well, now I knew and, oh, my heart just fell, I was sick to my stomach. I thought oh, there it is. I have a PhD. You'd think that that wouldn't happen to me, but I'm here to tell you, it can happen to anybody, especially when you want something bad enough. So I called the police and they gave me the number for the fraud department. I called the fraud department and then I went to my bank and my bank said they would try and recoup anything that they could for me. However, the longer it had been since I had sent that money, the harder it would probably be for them to get it back, because it's probably already withdrawn from their bank. Well, they did end up getting about $1,200 back for me from that bank that they hadn't spent yet. So there you go. No saddle $13,000 out.
Speaker 1:Now I have to tell my husband. Oh yeah, ladies, don't keep this kind of stuff from your husbands. I'm telling you it's not a good thing to do, and I knew it wasn't. I just didn't want his opinion. You know, I just wanted my saddle. Well, he was very, very kind about it and felt bad for me that that had happened to me, so I was grateful for that. So that's what happened, guys, I mean, there are several things you can do beyond what I did to make sure that those saddles were real. So I'm going to give you a list here in a minute. I want you to really really look at that, and if you're going to buy a horse or you're going to buy a saddle or anything like that online, please I caution you don't think that it won't happen to you.
Speaker 1:When I did my research, I found out some very interesting facts. I found out that, between the horses and the vets and the products, that the economic impact totaled over a hundred billion dollars, with all that money that circulates in the horse industry. So you know, it's no wonder that the scammers are attracted to that. I am here to tell you that these scammers are very sophisticated. I found out that not only was this lady that sold me the saddle a fraud, but the administrator of the Facebook page was a fraud, and, of course, the freight people were fraud and, yes, the Citibank guy was a scammer as well, so they were all in it together. I mean, they just boom, boom, boom. They just all fell into place for them and against me. Now, since then, that particular Facebook page has been taken down, but they probably put it back up under a different name.
Speaker 1:There are some additional things that you can do to prevent yourself from getting scammed like I did. First, when you contact the person that has the product, talk to them on the telephone. The scammers will not talk to you on the phone. They don't want you to hear that they're foreign or they don't want you to pick up on anything that might be a telltale sign that they're not for real. Also, ask for not just a picture of your name and your date next to the product, but ask for a video, because I found out that the scammers will Photoshop the writing on your piece of paper. They'll Photoshop that onto the picture that they have lifted off of someone else's website. Secondly, don't allow them to ship it the way they want to ship it. Make sure that they ship it UPS. That way, you are assured that it's a legitimate shipping company.
Speaker 1:Next, ask for a serial number and have them take a picture of the serial number of the saddle or of anything else that you're buying. If it's a horse that you're buying, be sure that you check the registry and make sure that whoever they say they are, that the registry has that horse under the same name. Also, as soon as you know something's up, go to the bank immediately. They will file the fraud report. They will recoup your money as best they can. If I had gone sooner, the people that I sent all that money to may not have gotten it out of the account yet and I could have gotten more back.
Speaker 1:And if you were corresponding by messenger only or email, check their grammar, check their spelling. Many times these people that are from other countries don't have a command on the English language well enough to spell and to use proper grammar, and so that's a sign that they may be dealing with a scammer. In my case, they sounded exactly the way they should have. Lady even used language that was appropriate for equestrians, and I mean she said things like oh, you're going to love this saddle, it's going to be a good ride for you. You know that's something an equestrian would say.
Speaker 1:Next, look for the thing that you're buying on other webpage sites and see if it is for sale on other sites that have different owners and that will show you that perhaps been lifted off someone else's website. Next, everyone tell somebody what you're doing, even though you don't want them to give their opinion. Sometimes a grounded voice of reason is necessary and they may have suggestions on how you can make sure that it is legitimate. Don't shy away from telling someone, even if it's just one person, your best friend. Lastly, don't get emotionally attached.
Speaker 1:These scammers know they count on you getting very involved and having your emotions escalate and get momentum going so that you you want it even worse. Uh, it's like, I guess like playing a slot machine or gambling or something. You you keep thinking, okay, it's right around the corner, it's right there, I just just need to put down a little more money. So don't get attached in that way. Keep yourself solid and if there's a little inkling in the back of your mind that says this may not be real, stop and think what you're doing and then talk with your husband or your wife. Get together on it, be a team.
Speaker 1:There's a lot more I could talk about as far as scammers are concerned when it comes to buying horses, but I've run out of time and I've already gone over my time, so we'll do that on another podcast, because there's plenty of things that you can look out for if you're going to buy a horse online. So that's my story, and I appreciate all of you for taking the time to listen. I hope it helps. I hope it will keep someone else from having to deal with what I had to deal with. Having said all that about scammers, I do need to say that the horse industry is one of the wonderful industries to be involved with. I highly recommend it. The people that are in this industry are supportive, they're loyal, they're fun-loving and just a great collection of individuals to be involved with. And everybody, until next time, may all your blues be ribbons. Bye-bye, thank you.